tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-681509622212079331.post6877577266999109249..comments2023-05-09T17:43:00.019+02:00Comments on The City of Iron: My Visual Map of D&D HistoryGavin Normanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12362875699031245377noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-681509622212079331.post-76528359113028494072012-12-30T10:29:13.813+01:002012-12-30T10:29:13.813+01:00Yeah, the map is far from complete. I left Pathfin...Yeah, the map is far from complete. I left Pathfinder off because the main reason I wanted to make the map was to demonstrate to some new players what all the retro-clones are. Pathfinder's too far off my radar to have been included.Gavin Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12362875699031245377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-681509622212079331.post-86208963037458382882012-12-28T13:27:23.484+01:002012-12-28T13:27:23.484+01:00What, no Pathfinder?
Pathfinder has the same rela...What, no Pathfinder?<br /><br />Pathfinder has the same relationship to 3.5 as the retroclones do to the various earlier editions.<br /><br /><br />CarlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-681509622212079331.post-31828098157678646572012-11-23T21:34:30.541+01:002012-11-23T21:34:30.541+01:00The picture is great Gavin, but I agree about the ...The picture is great Gavin, but I agree about the doubt you have over the Holmes/AD&D shared genetics line. They both shared OD&D as inspiration, but I don't believe the evidence suggests that Gygax was inspired by Holmes while writing AD&D (and obviously not vice versa). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-681509622212079331.post-76184886559459973632012-11-23T10:36:20.729+01:002012-11-23T10:36:20.729+01:00Thanks for the insight Dave... this shows where my...Thanks for the insight Dave... this shows where my being one year old at the point when Holmes and AD&D were published is not in my favour! ;)<br /><br />Not sure if my "shared genetics" line on the graph is very accurate now.Gavin Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12362875699031245377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-681509622212079331.post-44987061363765489972012-11-23T08:58:56.189+01:002012-11-23T08:58:56.189+01:00That should read "...before either the PHB or...That should read "...before either the PHB or DMG were even written..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-681509622212079331.post-55050901222098921232012-11-23T08:57:36.145+01:002012-11-23T08:57:36.145+01:00I think Holmes is more a precursor to AD&D
It...<i>I think Holmes is more a precursor to AD&D</i><br /><br />It's not though. <br /><br />Holmes edited the original 3 booklets and the Greyhawk supplement to produce his rulebook. It was released before either the PHB or DMG was even published, and before the MM was released. Gygax admitted that the (8) AD&D references in Holmes were added to the manuscript for marketing purposes, to encourage customers to purchase the upcoming Advanced products.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-681509622212079331.post-40955333669922247642012-11-23T08:30:57.510+01:002012-11-23T08:30:57.510+01:00Good point about Holmes. I added a line to indicat...Good point about Holmes. I added a line to indicate its "shared genetics" with AD&D.<br /><br />Also added a line connecting 2e and 3e. Maybe I was trying to make too much of a point by separating them so much originally ;)Gavin Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12362875699031245377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-681509622212079331.post-55168089016051615142012-11-23T02:50:50.331+01:002012-11-23T02:50:50.331+01:00I think Holmes is more a precursor to AD&D, th...I think Holmes is more a precursor to AD&D, though. It separates class and race, has a more complicated alignment system than just C-L-N.<br /><br />And 3e bears more resemblance to D&D than 4e. It borrowed a lot from both AD&D and BECMI (virtually the skill list) with some from Rolemaster, I would say. 4e is almost an unrecognizable game.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06440605975564288373noreply@blogger.com